Erika Steinbach and German Victims of WWII
'I Want the Truth, and Nothing But'
Steinbach: I constantly ask myself what might help to resolve the problem. It is clear that the Federation of Expellees and some of its past leaders have been favorite targets for Polish hostility. But it cannot be the responsibility of a victims' rights organization to deny the fates of its own in order to achieve better international relations. Mutual empathy -- that's the right approach.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Still, one of those leaders, Herbert Hupka, was even given an award in Poland in the 1990s.
Steinbach: He was no longer in office at the time, and he was made an honorary citizen of his city. At the municipal level, there have been, and still are, good connections between the expellees and the Poles. There are partnership programs, and they have summer parties, go on pilgrimages and attend church services together.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The fact that you voted against recognition of the Oder-Neisse line (eds. note: the border between Germany and Poland established after World War II) in the Bundestag in 1991 didn't exactly encourage such cordialness.
Steinbach: My goal at the time, together with other members of parliament, was to ensure that all unanswered questions, such as the issue of restitution, were resolved concurrently with the border issue, so as to establish a permanent peace. And not doing so was a cardinal error, as the fierce territorial debates of recent years have shown. At the time, we also made it clear that we recognized the Oder-Neisse border as the binding border under international law.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Your father was a soldier in the German army that occupied Poland. This is a bitter pill to swallow for many Poles when you speak in your capacity as head of the Federation of Expellees. Is that clear to you?
Steinbach: The decisions of past governments should hardly be unloaded onto the civilian population. If soldiers had no choice, then it is certainly no different for women and children.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Besides, both your parents come from western Germany.
Steinbach: My father did not invade Poland in 1939. He arrived there later as a soldier in the air force. Incidentally, my father's side of the family is from Silesia, and several of my great uncles and aunts were expelled from there in 1946. But the Poles, of course, are not interested in that. Ultimately, this sort of a debate is a very banal diversionary tactic.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: You were not born in the former German Reich, but in occupied Poland. Wouldn't it have made more sense if you had disclosed your family history yourself, instead of leaving it up to Polish newspapers? As a result, papers in Warsaw were suddenly claiming that Steinbach is not a real expellee.
Steinbach: My ancestry is documented in the handbook of the German Bundestag. But am I supposed to justify where I was born? That's irrational and an excuse. The Poles are not afraid of the reinterpretation of history, but of its being examined in the first place. Besides, many of the expellees were not expelled from the former eastern part of Germany, but from countries like Hungary, the Czech Republic and Yugoslavia. Fortunately, no one from any of those countries is getting involved.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The Poles pay very close attention to everything you say. Why do you keep provoking them? In one interview, you stated that without Hitler the Poles would not have been able to achieve their goal of driving out the Germans. The Führer as willing executioner of Polish public sentiment? Are you serious?
Steinbach: We have come a long way, if the truth is reinterpreted to mean provocation. It happens to be a fact that postcards were used in Poland before the beginning of World War II that depicted the country's borders as being near Berlin. And Polish politicians wanted to reduce the "foreign elements" -- which included, in addition to the Germans, Ukrainians and Belarusians -- to less than 1 percent. These are proven statements. It goes without saying that this does not justify what Hitler did. Next to the Russians, the Poles are the most mistreated people in Europe. There is deep trauma there, particularly from the fact that the country has been partitioned three times in its history.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In which the Germans were not uninvolved.
Steinbach: Yes, we were always involved.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: And, after 1945, it wasn't the idea of the citizens of Lviv, in what was then eastern Poland but now belongs to Ukraine, to be resettled to Wroclaw on Stalin's orders.
Steinbach: Of course not. I am familiar with the fate of the eastern Poles who were expelled at the time, as well as the story of Zamosc. We presented this in an exhibition. The Federation of Expellees also organized an event about the Warsaw Uprising, a premier in Germany. But the reaction in Poland was: This is an outrage. The Federation of Expellees is taking away our sanctuary. I could stand on my head and catch flies with my feet, but it wouldn't do any good. That's why I'm giving up. The Poles have to calm themselves down. I cannot contribute to that. I am distorted, deformed and insulted in Poland. But my good will is still there. However, when we extend our hands in reconciliation, we are attacked in return. After 1965, the Poles eradicated their own bishops' message from their memories: "We forgive and ask for forgiveness." That is tragic.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: You demand recognition of the suffering of the expellees. At times, it seems as if no one has even listened to you through the 60 years of postwar German history. But in the 1950s and 60s, expulsion from the former eastern territories was the central issue in German domestic politics -- long before open discussion of the Holocaust began.
Steinbach: There was indeed considerable solidarity with the expellees at the time. Nevertheless, the new arrivals were not welcomed with open arms. After 1968, the media's treatment of the expellees began to deteriorate, and in many cases they were literally denounced. Today, thank God, this has changed.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The differences between today and 1968 certainly have something to do with the expellee organizations' bitter attacks on (former Chancellor Willy) Brandt's policy for Eastern Europe. But you cannot claim today that the fate of the expellees is ignored in the media. From Günter Grass to movies aired in prime time, the expulsion of the Germans is a hot topic.
Steinbach: We, as a federation, have spent the last 10 years intensively contributing to and pushing this development.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Ms. Steinbach, when was the last time you were in Poland?
Steinbach: The last time was when I met with Donald Tusk in Grünberg (Zielona Góra). It was a few years ago. He was still a member of the opposition at the time. As a welcome, I was burned in effigy outside the building.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Is it possible that you are not diplomatic enough for this job?
Steinbach: I do believe that I generally manage to cut to the chase. I want the truth, and nothing but the truth. If I expressed myself like a diplomat, I would not be heard. Of course, I want to be a mouthpiece, one that can be heard, for those who, as a result of psychological strain, cannot articulate their fate. If I were to beat about the bush, they would say: nice, but boring.
Interview conducted by Claus-Christian Malzahn and Hans-Ulrich Stoldt
Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan